World record for Pieter Veenstra: 1.899.300 EURO for 245 pigeons! Mr. Hu Zhen Yu buys the most expensive pigeon ever for 250.400 EURO!

Today the auction of Pieter Veenstra ended, in which yesterday the record for the most expensive pigeon ever was broken with 250.400 EURO. Today an even more prestigious record has been added, namely that of the most expensive total auction ever!

Update Sunday 8 p.m.:

It was already clear yesterday that a super record would be set by the auction of Pieter Veenstra. But at the start of this auction 2 weeks ago no-one dared to think of almost 1,9 million EURO. An average of 7.752 EURO per pigeon with 245 pigeons in the auction... Overwhelming figures.

An overview of the most expensive pigeons from today:
Skychen from China bought, after losing out on Dolce Vita, her full sister Chanel Nr. 5 for 75.000 EURO after a battle against 3 different bidders: Great Wall, Mark Kitchenbrand and Zhan Zhi Lin.
The nest sister of Dolce Vita, namely Cela Vita will move to Great Wall for 40.400 EURO.
The Golden Blue will move to Zhan Zhi Lin in Singapore for 50.000 EURO, he beat Mr. Hu, the buyer of Dolce Vita.
Kai Er, the buyer of the BIS couple Mr. Blue/Da Vinci went out fully for the Miss Million and also won her for 60.200 EURO, last opposing bidder here was Mark Kitchenbrand.
In the last part today a younger sister from Dolce Vita was sold for 39.000 EURO to Great Wall.

Up to a few years ago no-one thought such  a result was possible, but PIPA has managed to double the record of most expensive auction in a timespan of just 3 years… In April 2009 Ludo Claessens sol all his pigeons via PIPA and it was for a never before seen record of 905.000 EURO with the most expensive pigeon ever at that time, the Jonge Supercrack with 110.000 EURO. Less than 3 years later it stands at almost 1,9 million EURO and 250.400 EURO respectively!
And this thanks to a fantastic team of employees worldwide…PIPA is one great network with all fantastic people whereby the total is greater than the number of people. PIPA would like to thank everybody who has contributed to this fantastic success, be it from close by or far away.

For the statistics here a list with the most expensive auctions ever:
1. Pieter Veenstra – January 2012 (internet auction) – 1.899.300 EURO
2. Pros Roosen – January 2011 (public auction)  – 1.368.000 EURO
3. Jos Thoné – December 2010 (public auction) – 1.323.780 EURO
4. Andre Verbesselt – January 2012 (internet auction)– 1.292.400 EURO
5. Erik Limbourg – December 2009 (public auction)  – 1.252.000 EURO
6. Dr. H.P. & P. Brockamp – November 2010 (internet auction) – 1.017.750 EURO
7. Verreckt-Ariën – December 2011 (internet auction) – 971.800 EURO
8. Ludo Claessens – April 2009 (internet auction) – 905.450 EURO

Update Saturday 8 p.m.:

At the bottom of this page you can find a report on the most expensive pigeon ever.
In addition there were many more highlights, with the most predominant being the BIS sale Mr. Blue/Da Vinci. Hereby it was clearly a case of the saying: “When 2 dogs fight for a bone…” because after a long battle between Mr. Hu (buyer Dolce Vita/Special Blue) and Sky Chen, who bid against each other up to 120.200 EURO, at the very last minute Mr. Xing (better known as Kai Er) bid 130.000 EURO. With this he made the final bid.

An hour previously the bidding for Rolex ended, 1st National Ace bird WHZB 2009 and was sold for 70.400 EURO to Great Wall. He fought with Yong Lin who was bidding for his client Dempsy Dong from China.

Dempsy Dong wasn’t able to buy the Rolex, but then went full out for Sissi which was sold later in the afternoon. In a battle with Zhan Zhi Lin, Dempsy Dong (via Yong Lin) made the final bid on Sissi of 35.400 EURO.

Other notable transfers:
Koen van Roy bought Turbo Magic for 20.200 EURO.
One of the last children of the Golden Lady from Koopman moved to China for 41.200 EURO.
Next Sissy moved to Great Wall for 29.800 EURO.
Tiange (China) bought 2 children and a brother Dolce Vita for a joint sum of 52.000 EURO.

Tomorrow the sale of many more top pigeons will end with a.o. Chanel Nr. 5, Cela Vita (nest sister Dolce Vita), Armani, Golden Blue, Miss Million, Olympic Hanne, Olympic Patrick, Lion King,…

The first auctions end tomorrow at noon!

Update Saturday 1 p.m.:

The previous record of most expensive pigeon ever in an auction was attributed to the name of the Euro Diamond from H.P. & P. Brockamp which moved to Japan for 170.000 EURO. The fact that it is now a hen which has pulverised this record is very remarkable but also displays the class of both Dolce Vita and Special Blue.

Mr. Hu Zhen Yu is the owner of one of the biggest One Loft Races of South-China, in Wenzhou. He accumulated his capital  through his business    through his business Zhenyu Holding Group which is the biggest producer of ships in China. He intends to focus more and more on the pigeon sport. This investment is a clear signal of this.

Hu Zhen Yu left, together with PIPA Distributor Green Xiang


Congratulations Mr. Hu Zhen Yu 恭喜胡先生甄與.


Congratulations ! Smile

Congratulations Mr. Hu Zhen Yu, I wanted to make a bid too, but first I have to sell my house... Very Happy

Ook bijvoorbaat mijn felicitaties aan Team PIPA en de fam. Veenstra met deze exceptionele opbrengst!!!


Zoals met vele records in allerlei sporten moet men zich ook hier afvragen waar ligt de limiet??
Ik vind het prachtig voor de koper maar ben bij dit soort aankopen zeer geinteresseerd naar de kweekresultaten en koppelpartner.
Het zou prachtig zijn als dit via PIPA opgevolgd zou kunnen worden.

Met sportgroeten,
John Heijnen, Geleen, Limburg, Holland.

ps. kan PIPA dit vertaald doorsturen naar de koper?

Congratiulations !

Super! Good luck!

Mr Hu Zhen Yu,

Congratulations with your new top-bird wich one that may be! I think Pieter and Gea, You and PIPA did write history today..

Enjoy your trip to The Netherlands, and hopefully you can make the right choice!

Kind regards,

Bo yan



Congratz Mr Hu Zhen yu.
I wish you good luck with your new pigeon.
Mister Veenstra is simply the best in Holland at the moment.
I wish also all the chineesch people all the best.
China is no 1.

Greetz from Holland.


Pieter en Gea,
Van harte gefeliciteerd !!!.
Het is werkelijk niet te geloven zo geweldig wat jullie bereiken met de duiven!!!
Nogmaals petje af!!!!!
Bertus en aaltje. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Remarkable how much the value of the humble pigeon has risen in my 70 years involvement with racing pigeons.
What will the reactions to this be ? some will be negative some will be positive,
Mr Hu Zhen yu is in a position to buy and also to justify his outlay, that is his choice, with choice comes responsibility so I hope the benefits to the sport is positive.
This bird will be housed in luxury and receive the best of attention no doubt and when I compare how things have changed and evolved over my lifetime from the basic orange box lofts of yesteryear to the palatial lofts of today I reason it must be good for the image of the Pigeon.
We must not forget Pigeon racing is a simple sport to be enjoyed by all who wish to become involved for the right reasons.
Ken Ambler.
"the Amblers of Oxenhope"

Waarom zouden er geen goede duiven mogen verkocht worden?
Is het een ramp voor de duivensport in Europa?
Misschien zullen wij, Europeanen, ooit duiven aanschaffen uit andere werelddelen.
En dan? Als dat werkelijk een meerwaarde is, waarom niet?

Ik denk dat het nu nog altijd mogelijk is om topkwaliteit aan te schaffen uit het eigen werelddeel.
Voor sommige disciplines zitten er misschien betere in een buurland.
Geen nood. Erop afgaan en testen.

Waarom schrik hebben dat er grenzen opengaan? De tijd van dorp tegen dorp is voorbij.
De duivensport is soms een beetje blijven steken in de goeie oude tijd. Toch in de gedachtenwereld van de mensen die denken dat de tijd is blijven stilstaan.

Hello Terence

I think that, with my 24 years of age,I'm a young fancier. And I can tell you that the big prices are not the reason of the falling member numbers! That started 20-30 years ago. If you look at the most popular sports in the world like soccer, Tennis, Golf etc... you can see that 1.900.000 euro's is not that much...

Hallo Gea en Pieter,

van harte gefeliciteerd met het resultaat van deze geweldige verkoping !!!

Ook een dikke pluim voor Pipa, die deze verkoping weer fantastich heeft geörganiseerd.

Groetjes Huub Hermans, Born

gone are the days of the small team fancier who works 9-5 earning a small income. a small bundle of feathers valued at so much money, i.e. a years wages. absolutely ludicrous. sport where is the sport now. where have all the young fanciers gone. how can they afford money on this scale. a pen can write anything. a pedigree means nothing. the pigeon that wins a race against 40,000 birds, now that is worth more than all the money in the world. long life the small team fancier


Hello Terence

You still see 10 year old kids playing soccer, they all want to be Messi, Ronaldo etc... And the month salary of Christiano Ronaldo is 2.311.436 euro's! He could buy Veenstra hi whole loft by kicking a ball for one month and he still get some "change" of 411.000 euro! Some of those kids make it to the top and most of them don't but still playing soccer for fun. The cool thing in our sport is that every one can make it to the top small, large, rich, poor, man, woman.... you don't have to buy very expensive pigeons to win. I started in the year 2000 at age of 11, I won that year and I'm still winning now with the same bloodline I got for free when I was 6 years old!

Like Schmitt I think that price didn't say anything when its a matter of good loft like the Veenstra Loft.

Even the less expensive bird of this auction can lead to success because there is a global quality and all birds are quite the same.

And maybe this most expensive bird wont give anything good in the future.
In Racing pigeon sport the price means nothing at all. Countless examples proove the contrary.

Hallo allemaal,

Pieter en Gea en het team van Pipa van harte met dit resultaat.


Hallo Fam Veenstra van harte mijn Felicitaties voor het behaalde resultaat!
jullie hebben het verdiend na jaren hard werken .
groeten van Menno uit Limburg.

There is no doubt that the good pigeons are expensive and the best breeding pigeons are beyond the reach of many fanciers. At the same time, almost all of us in the sport know as to how difficult it is to discover the right match for your excellent pigeon to breed future winners. The Master Breeders spend almost all their lives in refining their pigeon strain so they deserve the appreciation from the buyers who do not want to invent the wheel all over again.

My heartiest congratulations to the winning bidders and even more to the breeders of these birds.


Congratulations to everyone involved in this super sale of the year 2012.
Pieter and Gea, success in the future with the remaining doves.

Regards, Anita en Frans van den Heuvel

Hello , I live in one of the biggest money prizes countries by racing pigeon sports.
I have my own pigeons since 1994 and bought pigeons from USA,Bel. NL and Germany for many years.
It means not a fresh fancier and not so old.
I had 2 racing clubs with each 200 members above for 5 years.
Each club members live in about 30km2 area.They live very closed each other to reduce the racing loft location difference from the race distances.
Ex: Distance:200km , A (longest )loft: 202km , B(shortest) loft:197km. A to B has 5km distance difference.
5/200:2.5% distance differenc only.
A season 7 weekly race distances: 200, 230, 270, 300, 330, 360 and 360km to my loft.
5/360:1.39% distance difference at final race.
It is a very objective race if the distance difference under 2.5% after years.
Beside the win direction on race day. But it still ok because members live in a small square area.
How about a 74km race with 40km loft dist. difference?
How about a champion pigeon from 74km against 12000 entries? Is it worth 20,000.-euro even more?
If race to 500km distance , 40km is still to much. To the national result , the loft distance difference will become a huge. Some fanciers 600km and some 470km in Belgioum. Netherlands also.
It is your game and result but I do pay respact.

In my viewpoints about Veenstra Loft internet auction result, it is unbelievable. For the owner and auction team are amazing. For the sport is bad lead direction that young fanciers will less by less and a part of others will change to be a business man. From honest to be greed.
It is all for the money.Just business pigeons.
Check out the record of most of pigeons at the auction,their performance based on lots of entries and huge of loft distance difference. They are good quality even parents and family also.
But the problem is how much do they worth???
Most of the buyers in China, that means most of them are fresh fanciers.
Did you remember that you believed all the pigeon stories when you were a fresh fancier , especially you bought many pigeons as possible when you had money in your pocket.

Now the China fanciers are!! Wake up!!

现在中国鸽迷! !醒醒吧! !

congratulations From Morocco
Good Luck

Hello Terence

Haha I'm not obsessed by soccer, I'm just saying... You think that the death of our sport is the money but in the same time you say that soccer has millions fanatics! Maybe you don't understand what I try to say with my bad english, I'm sorry for that. And it's not true that the "big lofts" don't give anything for free to help young fanciers. Like I said, my basic breeding hen was bred from pigeons I got for free. I got pigeons for free from Gommaire Verbruggen, one of them was father to my 1° national Argenton 2007, I got pigeons for free from L,B,J Geerinckx one of them bred the 5° national Argenton last season, I got one for free from Marcel Sangers he bred a.o. the 7° National La Souterraine 2010 and I got some from Willem de Bruijn and one of them was 2° ace pigeon and won a.o. 6° National ZC Gueret last season. You see all big names in our sport and I got them for free. I'm still happy and thankfull that they wanted to do that.

Yet business people and should therefore considered to think that it's not like a work of art or other that will keep its value or even lose a little to the heirs or you can say I am pleased for to say I have made ​​this work here or other animals will age and eventually lose it all in 5 or 10 years it will be worth EUR 0
I wonder if this is not an arrangement to make a good publicity stunt for everyone (buyer seller) but even any men who were supposed billionaire would never invest such a sum, and certainly not bleed


C'est pourtant des hommes d'affaires donc reflechi et devrais bien penser que c'est pas comme une oeuvre d'art ou autre qui gardera sa valeur ou même en perdera un peu pour ces héritiers ou tu peut dire je me suis fait plaisir pour le faite de dire je possède cette oeuvre ou autre içi l'animal va vieillir et finira par tout perdre dans 5 ou 10 ans il vaudra 0 euros
Moi je me demande si ce n'est pas un arrangement pour faire un bon coup de pub pour tout le monde (vendeur acheteur) mais n'importe quel homme censer même milliardaire n'investirais jamais une somme pareil et surtout pas à fond perdu


Maar mensen uit het bedrijfsleven en moet daarom beschouwd om te denken dat het niet een kunstwerk of een ander dat de waarde zal behouden of zelfs een beetje te verliezen aan de erfgenamen of je kunt zeggen dat ik ben blij als voor om te zeggen dat ik dit werk hier of andere dieren leeftijd maakte en uiteindelijk alles verliezen in 5 of 10 jaar zal het een waarde van EUR 0
Ik vraag me af of dit niet een regeling die een goede publiciteitsstunt te maken voor iedereen (koper verkoper), maar zelfs geen mannen die geacht werden miljardair zou nooit een dergelijk bedrag te investeren, en zeker niet bloeden

To pay such a huge amount buy a pigeon, it is not only at this auction , but also few pigeons at before auctions on pipa if you remembered.
Buyers almost are China fanciers, one buyer Mr. Marc De Cock a very good reputaion fancier bought "Eagle".

In China, there are many racing clubs and international combined lofts(one loft race). Fanciers pull the money on own pigeons no matter where in own loft and combined loft.
Clubs and one loft owners earn about 3-6% commission of the season race total money.

Looking at the gambling money arround China, there is 1 or 2 one loft race gambling money over 2 millions euro for a season race. Most of between 100, 400,000.- euro. Above are few.
The club arround 300 to 1200 pigeons and one loft race arround 2000 to 6000 pigeons.

All clubs and one loft race have the rule that no possibility won all the complete money by any fancier.
Because when it happened the club or one loft race owner will be very hard to develop next season race.
The reason that all fanciers are losers only one winner. They need to save money to race by next season if they have enough.
Clubs and one loft race need a continue race season by season for a quite amount pigeons and money.
It is a very dangerous situation that less quantity entires and money for a club and one loft.

A chance to win 30% of tatal money from club or one loft is very lucky maybe a time for a life.
Can you image what kind of fancier invest such amount for a pigeon around world?
When can he get back this investment? Winning back ? or Selling the offsprings from this pigeon?
May be he is a fresh and rich fancier or a pigeon collector.

My opinion that Racing pigeon like play golf in Europe.
You do not consider get a huge bay of money back before you take the bars out.
It just a interest and hoppy for life.
A fun market good quality pigeon sold to a professional market for a extra professional price.

Wake up!! Asia fanciers!! China fanciers!


I myself am a 21 year old fancier from the United States and can relate to what has been said. I can say simply that if you have the money to buy the money to purchase the best pigeons available than why not do it. If you boast a interest in having the best to an extreme that your paying 245k for a bird than fulfill your need after all it is not my money your nor our money your spending. The sport of racimg pigeons is on the rise in the asian countries therefore we can expect for such craze sadly for the USA its not that easy the awareness of the actual sport is awful no one knows it exist except for Mike Tysons show recently many people did not even know that pigeons where part of such an exciting and ingeneous hobby. I myself is a University student and work and still find time to support my hobby ive racing since i was 12 and i still get a high off watching my first bird dive down to the board. I think that if it were not for the overdramatic prices for clocks, rings, medicines, etc. Even pigeons i could see our fancy growing, but unfortunately that is not the case. I find a simple solution to the decrease just a matter of "making it easy on new flyers to fly" its sad how at some clubs guys join and they get trampled so bad that they quit. When i started a guy gave me 10 pairs to breed. I went home jolly and mated 5 pairs; after 2 weeks only one pair had laid. It was weird because the other 4 pairs would be in constant fights when another flyer came over he told me you have 9 cocks and one hen!!!!! How low and sad can the riddance of birds be to give a kid 12,years of age 9 cocks as supposely being 5 pairs?! That same guy (5 years later) asked me a few years back if i had bred any of the pairs and i told him yes indeed they are still sitting on eggs till this date.

Race pigeons, Regain the Sportmanship we boast to have and most of all stop the ludicrous myths and lies and RACE PIGEONS!! (Stop telling the young new flyer that he should buy pigeons with longtoenails because they have good racing/breeding qualities when the only quality they have is of a good grain picker) help the future only then will the future be secured.

van harte gefeliciteerd met de verkoop van jullie duiven, ook pipa gefeliciteerd, alleen jammer dat de duivenogen ontsierd worden door de sluiter van de camera, dit moet toch ook door een professionele fotograaf te omzeilen zijn, misschien betere belichting.
Nog wel een opmerking over de verkoop van de duurste duif allertijden, China weinig last van de recessie (vooral de scheepsbouw dus)dus kopen van dure duiven. Nederland wel last van de recessie (vooral de bouw dus de sector van Pieter Veenstra)logischer wijs de verkoop van duiven als het slecht gaat toch.
Veel succes verder met jullie duiven, en pipa met de site.
MVG Leo Jansen


I try to translate few questions from part of my club members asked :

How much tax does an auction pay to goverment tax division? 20% or more??
Please kindly advise if someone know it exactly.

Hello Max.
You're right. In pigeon-sport is told too much bulls**t. The problem of our sport are not the extremely high prices of the top-pigeons, you can buy enough very good pigeons in you neighborhood, you county, your nation... for little money. The problem are the guys, who have a problem with the fanciers, which are better. As a successful fancier you're only welcome, when work is to do, an to give a pigeon or a voucher for the club, to sell it for the club-cash. Only a few guys say "Well done, you've worked hard for victory", the most look angry and think "He again on 1st place. Couldn't he be in an other club???".
Good pigeons have extra long toenails??? I've never heard such a stupid myth.
The only way to see good pigeons, is to look in the result-list and then to visit the owner and to ask him if you may have a look at the pigeons. if he is a good sportsman, he probably gives you support. Beginner shouldn't hear to the "Champions", sitting at the bar, they should hear to the champions, which are sitting on their lofts.

I hope, my english was not too bad.

Greetings from Germany.
Yours in sport.

Stefan Wutzmann

The sport is dying in England at an alarming rate
Why, nobody has any foresight nobody wants to go forward nobody wants "change", we all still think that pigeons should be given away .... yes to young fanciers... not to the working man ....if you only had one club split in to sections say 50 strong surely these "MEN" could help the young fanciers out, you buy what you can afford and put the effort in and get your rewards.....
If all the organisations in Britian got together we could have over 50,000 pigeons to race against, like the lads in Europe.
Change is a word that seems to make the british people go weak at the knees.....
There is always away to go forward...... what are the RPRA doing ?


I am on my phone so i cannot type properly (@ terrence) excuse my writing. Long toe nailed pigeons make good stew, i should know i've made quite a few meals composed of pigeons with tremendous eyesight, long wings, long nails, long keels, yet i failed to see any with brains join as part of my meals.

祝贺 Good luck

I like this answer. I am new to this site and to racing pigeons, caught my attention because an online discussion group about pigeons posted this link about this pigeon bidding price record and wanted to see who the winner was. I could not comment on what is good or bad in regards to bidding such a high price for a pigeon but Schmitt is right on the fact that popular sports like soccer and other sports the best players in the game get paid very high.
I want to congratulate MR HU ZHEN YU for his winning and wish him the best of lucks with this bird.
Mr HU ZHEN YU I would love to be present at the time you participate in a race with this bird, enjoy it, you deserve it.

stayed with excellent pigeons

This old pigeon fancier is the real pigeon racing lover,great and respected.

I mean Ken Ambler and terence wright.I'm from china.

We need to be careful as we may kill our sport if only the rich win races !

It seems they cut Terence wright from the chat, proably would not do pipa any good, he spoke against turning our sport into a big money game ! Lots agreed with him here

This issue is very serious.Freedom of speech is the basic rights of the people on earth.Debate is important,people can learn from it.If it's true,the credibility of PIPA is in doubt.

There is a very high percentage bidders who win the final bid come from China.
Few winning bidders who from Europe and they also sold the pigeons to China, Taiwan and Japan for many years.
They are still sellers.

Every Europen fancier could be seller, this is a reason why they stay with the high price pigeons.

Do not even think about most of them will be a buyer who pay a crazy price for an excellent pigeon.

Ken Ambler and Terence Wright are few fanciers who with justice in Europe.I pay my respect.
But I do believe more and more over Europen fanciers will be agree with justice.

Alex kim,you are great,thank you.And I also google the super rich chinese buyers,they are also buying for resell,some even are one loft race loft owners,it looks like buying the expensive,luxury pigeons for the one loft race advertisements.Here in china,people are crazy in gambling on pigeon racing,I'm confident that at least 80% of clubs and one loft race are cheating.Many fanciers on the forum are saying,"this one is the dirt,black one loft race,that one is also the dirt,black one loft race.Too much
gambling and commercial on pigeon racing will bring devastating disaster to our loved pigeon racing sport.I Hope fanciers around the world can do something for our pigeon racing sport.Thank you.

This site is all about money. Yes it provides good info during the race season. But I have never seen any thing on here to help or encourage the young or new fanciers. I have looked back over the site for other comments by terrence wright and noticed they have all gone. He was not affraid to tell it how it is and this was no good for PIPA. This site is a business and that is all. Will they now cut me from their site for saying this ?

Dear TonyTalk,

first of all: the posts of Terence have not been deleted. Every single post he put here, is still available. I've personally checked that.

We do great things for the pigeon community. We have a editorial staff (2 people) that full time work to put articles online, coordinate writers, photographers, ... They are ofcourse paid by the auctions on our website.

We also have a whole section about "pigeon and loft", and vet who gives answers to pigeons fanciers from all over the world. We put the questions and the answers online, so every fancier can learn from them.

We also allow discussions and criticism on our website. Pigeon fanciers can learn from each other, as long as the atmosphere stays positive!

Finally, if you have any ideas on how to improve our website and to encourage young new fanciers, feel free to post them here. We'll discuss them in our meetings!


Well done, keep the pigeons coming as the economy needs them !

Ken Talks great for a man who lives in a country that can not import any pigeons, due to super strict import laws. I think its been 20 years since they last brought any fresh blood into NZ.

Hi I am back, and I still don't agree with the high prices pigeons are being sold for !

hlw,,how ar you all??i am new in racein world,every body pray for wish i will a famous racer breeder..than you all...

You will need more than prayers buddy, I've been doing that for years and still no luck. Money is what you need and a lot of time ! Good luck

Hi Abu, welcome in racing-pigeon sport. Wish you will be soon a GOOD fancier, but to be FAMOUS, you have a long way.
TonyTalk writes very negative.
I am a working man, I am definitive not rich, but I am very confident with the success of my pigeons.
Let me give you an advise: go to one or maximum two good fanciers, talk with them and learn from them. Then you go on your loft, you make (probably) a few mistakes, but as you learn from these mistakes, you will (probably) be a GOOD fancier in a few years.

I wish you all the best.

Greetings from Germany

Stefan Wutzmann

P.S.: Where do you come from?

STW my good sir, Tony Talk is a very competent fancier, I have won many races at all levels and have had top studs buy pigeons from me. TonyTalk tells it how it is, money and a lot of time, I know of no good fanciers that do not invest in both of these. If you would like to tell people that top results come from no effort and no investment go ahead. My comments were as usual truthful !

Well done Tony, a man like myself who can tell it straight. The truth hurts, if you want to be good you need money to acquire good birds, good feed, top medication, a good loft, etc. Then time and more time to give your birds the best attention that they need to win !

Dear Tony, lets keep on frienship.
Why do you write in one post "I've been doing that and still no luck" and in the next post you write you 've won many races?
Fact is:- I'm not very happy about the extraordinary high prices of top pigeons, too.
-But would the Veenstra-pigeon cost 1% of 250400 Euros, I wouldn't buy it, to much money for me.
I would like to ride a bigger car, but if I dont have the money, I wont be angry to the guy, who has the money, to buy it
There are enough good pigeons in my/your country or nation, which you can buy for the money you and I are able to spend for pigeons. If I cant buy pigeons from my national champion, I try to buy pigeons from the champion in my county.
-to have much money doesnt make pigeon sport harder for you, BUT MONEY IS NOT A GUARANTEE to be successful.
-a fancier, who has much money, but no talent, will never be successful.

Yours in sport.

Stefan Wutzmann (STW)

Hi STW, I don't think we understood each other, I was trying to say that I have preyed for results, and I never won anything, then I started to spend money and put time into my birds and along came success.Prey all you like but this will not help. May be I need to change religion ? I can be a bit sarcastic, which was also part of my other comment.Sorry if you did not understand.

Hi Tony, no problem.
I think, if a fancier likes to pray, why not. But after praying he should spend his time on the pigeon loft.


Dear stw,

Now I know what you mean and what kind of fanciers you are.
I agree with your view point that "if I dont have the money, I wont be angry to the guy, who has the money, to buy it". I believe many fanciers here with agreement.Pay my respect.
But what if the price is a fake between the seller to buyer and the broker.
All they try to drive up price of a pigeon for purposes those easy to sale the children off the pigeon for a common price and announce buyer is a rich man who fanciers can trust to send the youngsters in his one loft race with gamble money no worry about be taken away.

To dirve up price of a pigeon situation happened in the auctions in Taiwan.
How to know the truth deal price of an auction pigeons?
In Taiwan, fanciers(TRPA) can ask the goverment tax division to check how much tax did the auctioners pay for and public it by tax division. Now the final bidding price with fair at the auctions in Taiwan , a youngsters racing heaven. There are 600,000 to 700,000 youngsters with gambling money 4 to 5 billions euro for a year. 1 euro against 40.-NTD. There are 11,000 youngsters with gambling money 7 millions euro a year in my club.

Please ask the tax division in Belgium to check it and public it if some fanciers can. Then we will know the truth.
If it was a true price then we agree and support it. Seller , buyer and broker get a famous, wealth and respected reputaion.

Best regards,

Alex kim

Dear STW,

I am sorry for my poor English .
Hope you don't mind.


Alex kim

Dear Alex Kim,
thank you
My English isn't very good, too. But I think, we will understand each other.

In Germany taxes are only told between the government tax division and yourself. Nobody is able to know, how much taxes you pay, only the tax divison, you, and if you have, your tax consultant. We here in Germany call it "Steuergeheimnis"-fiscal secret/tax secrecy. Only if you freely publish, how much taxes you pay, it will be public (some Managers of very big Companies and some politians do that).
I think in Belgium it will be the same. I only know, every belgian fancier has to pay 3% "tax" of the price he gets for the pigeon, to the belgian racing pigeon association (and surely he has to pay the normal tax to the government). But one is fact, if you earn more money (on your job or with you pigeons), you have to pay more tax (because of our progressive taxation).
In Germany, there is nearly no gambling in the pigeon sport. Only in a few places in Germany is gambling still usual.
I think in Belgium there is gambling still normal, but not in such a high level, you wrote in your post.

Yours in sport,

Stefan Wutzmann (stw)

hi,greetings to all,i think with a little luck you can bay pigeons from veenstra loft with little money.i bought a pigeon who had the same grandparents like DOLCE VITA(KLEINE DIRK,PHEONIX,BULLS EYE....),in 2006 a female from DA HAAN combinatie.

Hi, i was thinking about a new hobby. it is to raise some racing pigeons. the question is, how can i tell between a good racer and a not so good one. i just don't want to be ripped off. Can Someone Write My Essay

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