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Posted on za, 22/05/2004 - 22:28
Hi guys!
Years ago , a pigeon would record a velocity of 1400 in a "no wind" situation.These days they are doing it, with a wind in front of em, How much further can we take em? Vic.
Reacties
Hi Vic,
What do you expect,90% of racers are bred and trained to"follow my leader"....a shame really...your breeding,and training the brains out of them,...give the same birds a single up,3 miles the opposite direction,and you may well struggle to get them on the day.
It`s funny really,that`s what most fanciers want nowadays.
Hi Vic and Ben
That is the diffference between Club and National Open Race pigeons, Club pigeons follow the leaders, and race in groups from start to finish. Should they get detached they do not make the speeds Vic says, National type racing, pigeons have to learn to break and fly Solo There is a vast difference.Not many pigeons will consistently fly on there own. With our old widowhood cocks in England i could take them 50 Miles and single one up every minute or so, It would be rare for two to get together. And they mostly came home in the order of letting go. This is because they are trained that way from the start and it is also bred into the family for the last 16 years, It that is possible to do
Steve
Vic
You're right - pigeons are faster. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether we're talking about Club, Fed, Combine or National racing.
Reasons being :-
Motivation? Not really. I'm sure we've pretty much exhausted this route.
NUTRITION : This is the key. Birds are fed like they are athletes of the sky. Decades ago there wasn't this development. I remember looking at birds when I was a kid & guys saying "That one there son flew Marennes on the day". Marennes on the day? We'd be looking for 'em to do 45mph in a head wind these days!
HEALTH. We're all better at keeping our birds in optimum health.
BLOODLINES : We're working with superior pigeons
Hi
The majority of pigeons in a club where they are going into a selected area, meaning radius. In any drag the leaders are the ones who know where they are going, Most are content to follow on behind, until they get to a point they regognize then break out. Open Competition means that pigeons have to break out and find there own line More so if the wind is against them. Club Pigeons do not have to do this unless they are lost. Grains of the Food pigeons are eating has not changed that much .All the grains fed to day were there to be used when i was a lad. The point of fact in those days the Tic Bean, Maple Pea. Maize . Wheat, and Safflower linseed and hemp, plus pin head oat meal with Cod Liver Oil, etc, were all used back in the 1950's. What has changed is the amount of Vitamin supplements on the market and the More use of Antibiotics. Plus in the old days fanciers were only had a small loft of pigeons Average 12 to 15 total and these pigeons raced from 50 Miles to 500 miles plus.In those days a pigeon which went off colour had to in most put itsself right if it did not in a short time the fancier disposed of it. So there was less need to treat for this and that. Today when a fancier gets a couple of young birds go off colour, If there are 50 young birds in the loft He will treat all 50 just to try and put two back on there feet. Which in all probabiliy are weak anyway. There is no logic in doing that but that is what many do. Say what you will times have not changed so much. THe main difference is Specalisation for various race distances and teams instead of using the same small team from the 3rd week in April to the Middle of July. Or most today favour the short races so they devlope a team just for that so therefore the speed increases in the main Not this way at all 50 years ago. Everyone wanted to win the long races, but the same pigeons went every week . The reason being Fanciers could not keep big teams in those days, Lack of Money in the house saw to that. not because they did not know. You young fanciers Think you know it all but you only know about your own time. Make the effort to go back into the past you may find it to your benifit Knowledge wise and for your pigeons Benifit
Steve
Hi Mike,
A silly thing to say really,birds were putting up good vel back in the 20s and before,at most distances,......silly saying superior ,and healther....look at the medication market...that should tell you all you need to know,..FOLLOW MY LEADER PIGEONS,...get a few mad headed yearlings hit the front...blimey that`s where you get the funny races.....those yearlings will takethe pack allover the country,till they tire out....Single them up first toss etc..,they will still win if you want to motivate them later in life
Dont know lads, some old strains still got the speed. In our area a guy came with imports, killed us till 500 Km and then faded. 4 years later the old strains are up with him, selected better due to competition, the strains all from the 1950s, old body types. But they are now up to speed.
I think competition and selection drive up the speed, food better medication and better(False) health all add to the move forward in speed.
My worry, we loosing the homing ability, due to losses increases. The guy with imports loses half his team. Yet the local old stuff still have the homing strenth, I know an old guy who loses no more than 2 a season,but he only shapes above 500 Km, the old ploders dont go missing.
So in the quest for speed, are we loosing the Homing aspect?
Greg
Hi
I will add a bit to my post above. We are not working with superior pigeons. To say that as Mike does is to say that the Fanciers today are Superior to those 40 to 50 years ago, That is not the case, Even in the late 1800s they were flying Barcelona. Not a easy job nowadays. These up and home jobs, Where in most cases the fastest trapper wins, are two a penny. I know i have been there, Done it, and got fed up with it. And now i may just go back again to it for just a couple of seasons,
Steve
Ste, Short, but sweet. Well said! Regards, Vic.
Pigeons do 500 mls & beyond on the day all the time now. They couldn't do it before. I take nothing back. Never said that fanciers now were better than before - said NUTRITION was the key & I don't change my opinion on that either
Mike
Hi Mike
You said 'We are working with Superior Pigeons'. This to me means that you would consider the fanciers of today better than years ago to be able to breed and cultivate those superior pigeons That is the way i read it. And as for Pigeons not flying 500 miles on the day years ago. In the 50's we were flying Thurso 505miles on the day. Of course you will stick to what you said but it would do you no harm to take the blinkers off once in a while
Steve
I don't have blinkers
When I say "Superior Pigeons" I mean that the way that the world has become more commercialised means its more than possible to save up for a little while,make a phone call to a genuine guy & get a pigeon or two off some really good pigeons. I wouldn't necessarily cal them "better fanciers". Pigeons have moved on, just like every other sport. For instance, Seb Coe was an awesome middle distance performer in his time - yet they are covering the ground faster now than ever before. Why?? Training methods and nutrition - just like pigeons.
As for pigeons "doing the distance" this is down largely to transportation improvements, improvements in feeding, training and diet. More birds do 500 miles on the day now than ever before. Simple fact of life.
Mike
Mick! Excellent flying, keep em coming. What I meant was that they may have not made a beeline for home as you may think. Pigeons up here are doing 1400. (not mine)
I know wind, position etc play there part. I'm not knocking, but nearly 70 yds per minute faster seems a lot to me. Well done. Cheers Vic.
Where were they racing from Vic?
Hi Mike
our fed/combine where from Lulworth cove. Covered the 192 mile in 4hrs 00mins and 35secs, 1406ypm.
Faster than most anticipated in a north west wind
Mick. we were at Blandford Forum, 180 miles. Best Ive heard l412. You were at Seaton, Cornwall, I imagine. (there's Seatons all over the place). The wind yesterday was more of a variable North, than N.E, Some feds were given, a NW wind. The east was minimal to sat the least. Vic.
Vic
1400's is a good time on any kind of head wind no doubt about it. However, I disagree about the East - we had loads. Our birds came BANG out of West, and I mean BANG out of the West too. Looking on www.xcweather.co.uk for Saturday it confirms East all over the country (to differing strengths). This is also proven by the fact that the West Section fared so well in the MNFC race. If there had been West in the wind the East Sections would've been much closer up.
We were at Seaton racing (comparatively) to an Easterly loft location. When we race from this part of the world with West in the wind we always treat it as a "blow-home". The West effectively being behind them. Consequently, when there's East in the wind and we're racing from Seaton or anywhere else on the dog-leg we treat it as a head-wind. Fed topper is 1365 and we're 1345. Top 30 position ends at 1334. This was the pace for our race from that point on that day. I'd have expected yours to have had the edge on Saturday as they derived more benefit from East in the wind - your Fed obviously being based much more westerly than ours.
Anyway.... What does it matter - it was a belting race. I wish we could book those conditions every Saturday!
Still Boinging
Mike
Mick, fair comment, lets hope for similar racing conditions over the channel. Vic.
Agree we do not have superior pigeons today. But I do believe we have a vast amount of science and knowledge of how to keep them healthier. Secondly even though we may have fewer flyers today, most know this. Specialization in sprints has by the process of elimination been the downfall of the overall pigeon and the distance birds. My thoughts. Lets race. Bye BillyT
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