Flying problems | Pigeon Paradise

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Dr Boddaert Wim	Dr Gyselbrecht Carlo	Dr Lanckriet Ruben	Dr Lanneau Pascal
Dr Schroeder Vincent	Dr Van Der Cruyssen Johan	Dr Van Rompaey Karlo	Dr Werquin Guy

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A question about a disease or a symptom you're not familiar with?

I am experiencing very heavy losses with my yearlings this season. They exercise very well twice each day for one hour?

I am experiencing very heavy losses with my yearlings this season. They exercise very well twice each day for one hour. Droppings are dry and well formed and the birds have a full body without carrying any excess weight. Appetite is good. When sent to the race any birds missing half hour after the first arrival are lost never to return. I have followed my usual practice of not racing these birds as youngsters but giving them extensive training to 100kms. Streptococcus has been suggested but I am unable to get a culture done in my locallity. Please help.

question by: Neville Daley

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

Dear Madam/Sir,

I doubt a streptococcus problem as the birds are flying so much every day. Although the birds seem clinically OK, I would still suggest to let the birds be checked especially for trichomonas and respiratory problems. A bird that has respiratory problems always has much more difficulties in oriëntation. A treatment for these diseases could solve your problem.

Kind regards

J'ai accouplé 24 jeunes femelles 2010 et deux d'entre elles m'arrivaient plus a volées pendant 2-3 jours après avoir pondu?

J'ai accouplé 24 jeunes femelles 2010 et deux d'entre elles m'arrivaient plus a volées pendant 2-3 jours après avoir pondu leur oeufs. Pouvez-vous me dire la cause, aucun symptôme (diarrhée). Ces dernières avaient été vaccinées et vermifugées en début d'année. Pour le reste des pigeons aucun problème. Merci de votre réponse.

question by: Ludovic

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

Bonjour,

Il y a une possibilité qu'il s' agit de streptococcus. Une traitement avec amoxicilline peut être la solution. De tout cas c'est indiqué pour visiter une vétérinaire et/ou laisser faire une necropsy.

Salutations sportives

In 2009 4 of my widowhood cocks developed flying problem during the season, in 2010 3 cocks developed the same symptom?

In 2009 4 of my widowhood cocks developed flying problem during the season, in 2010 3 cocks developed the same symptom and in 2011 i already have 3 cocks with problems. 3 weeks ago i sent away some dropping and swobs to a vet for testing, at that time i had one cock in 60 flying slightly lob sided!! He had been kepted in all winter and been flying out for a week. The tests came back no canker, some worm eggs and after a week some bacteria of Streptoccocus and e-coli. I wormed the birds and gave them a 10 day treatment of amoxicilian. After 9 days of treatment a cock developed flying problem and on day 10 another cock in another section again the same. Basically they hold there wing up slightly and the within a few hours can fly, only one wing seems affected each time, some seem to recover some dont. In general the birds are in good health and i have reared a superb round of ybs and had no fatalities for over 12 months in a stock of 300 birds. I did have some respiratory problems but i have been working to improve the enviroment. If i can spot any other problem it would be i tend to have slimmy red throats but i have put this down to Herpes as the birds pant after flying which i think they will adapt too. The only other thing to mention is i do have problems with hawks so the birds do fly off the loft at high speed and there are trees in the gardens around my loft. And i also have hens and have never had the problem with them.

question by: Stuart Wilcox

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

Dear Sir,

Nevertheless your amoxicillin treatment I still suspect streptococcus to be the problem. It could be interesting in your case to let an antibiogram be made on the streptococcus strain found on your loft. It could be the strain got resistant for the amoxicillin alone, in a lot of cases combination with clavulic acid could be of use.

Kind regards

Sinds een half jaar heb ik problemen met duiven die o.a. niet meer kunnen vliegen of scheef vliegen?

Sinds een half jaar heb ik problemen met mijn duiven. Het begon met enkele duivinnen (goede) die niet meer in hun bak konden komen. Lieten hun vleugel iets hangen. Daarna 2 duiven die blind werden en enkele duiven die tijdje niet aten en licht werden. Heb in begin gekuurd tegen paratyphus met achtereenvolgens furaltadone, norfloxazine en trim-sulfa. Duivinnen met vleugel begonnen iets op te knappen maar werden na tijdje weer slechter. De blinde duiven heb ik opgeruimd. De duiven die slecht aten en lichter werden zijn na enekele weken weer opgeknapt. Na tijdje een duivin die heel dun afging (polyurie) is na 4 weken weer opgeknapt. Op moment zit ik met een aantal duiven die scheef vliegen, het lijkt dat ze last hebben van schouder maar er is niets aan te zien. Tevens ook 2 duiven die op de andere dag mank lopen en ook bij deze duiven is niets te zien. De duiven die scheef vliegen, vlogen onlangs weer redelijk in de lucht maar zijn 2 dagen geleden weer teruggelopen en hebben nu weer veel moeite met vliegen. Mijn vermoeden is streptococcus alleen kan ik bij de plaatselijke dierenartsen geen amoxicilline krijgen omdat dit niet verkrijgbaar ik bij hun leverancier. Ben daarom maar doxycycline (7 dagen 10 mg/duif) gaan geven aan de duiven die iets mankeren omdat dit ook werkzaam moet zijn tegen streptococcus. Op moment kuur ik niet meer omdat het weinig effect heeft. Ik heb wel de beschikking over een penicilline/streptomycine oplossing (resp 10000 U/ml, 10 mg/ml) die ik subcutaan kan geven. Heeft dit nog nut bij duiven die ruim 2 maanden problemen hebben met vliegen? De kweek verloopt zonder problemen. Rest van duiven zien er mooi uit maar ben bang dat nu duivenseizoen gaat starten mijn andere duiven een risico lopen.

question by: Wim Kop

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

Beste,

Hoewel streptococcen een oorzaak of een complicatie kunnen zijn voor uw probleem, zou ik toch eveneens paratyphus niet uitsluiten. Ik zou u aanraden om naast een volledige amoxicilline-kuur in samenspraak met uw dierenarts (dit is zeker zonder probleem te verkrijgen), ook een paratyphus behandeling uitvoeren mét dubbele inenting! Indien de problemen verder aanslepen of als u nu meer uitsluitsel wil, is zeker autopsie van zieke duiven aangewezen.

Sportieve groeten

Every few weeks i have one or two birds that go light and weak to the point that they are not able to fly to their perch or nest?

Need help. I live in California and recently some of my birds started to go light. every few weeks i have one or two birds that go light and weak to the point that they are not able to fly to their perch or nest. They eat and drink and I give them few drops of cod liver oil in mouth. after couple of weeks they get back to normal and are ok. couple of months ago I treated them for worm (ivermectine), Cocci and Cancker. I give them fresh water every day and food in a clean container. Three weeks ago another cock bird had the same sympthoms. i took him to the vet. they did fecal and blood test and they said everything looked fine. he pulled through and is ok now. BUT now i have three other birds with exact same problem (lossing weight and energy). Any suggestion/idea to find out and eliminate this problem would be greatly appreciated. thanks, Farzin

question by: Farzin

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

Dear Sir,

I would suggest a good treatment for paratyphus (antibiotics + two times vaccination) could be of a lot of help for your problem f.e. enrofloxacine for two weeks following vaccination, repeat the vaccination after one month.

Kind regards

I have a hen that is raising one young bird that is very weak and has difficulties to stand?

I have a hen that is raising one young bird. 7 days ago I noticed she was on the floor with her wings open and could hardly move. When I picked her up she seemed very weak. It looked like she was going to die. I brought her to my heated garage along with the 2 week old baby which I started to hand feed. Afer about 1 day she started standing eating and drinking. After 2 days she started feeding the baby again. Everything seemed fine. yesterday when I looked at her she was leaning on her side and very weak again her eyes were closing and head was falling. I checked everything eyes throat no lumps. Her feet and legs seemed darker then usually so I soaked the in warm salt water for 15 min and put her back. She didn't move her feet at all and just sat tring to hold her head up. By the afternoon she was standing so I soaked her feet again. This time she had more life and some strength back. What could cause this? thanks gerry

question by: gerard

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

Dear Madam/Sir,

This could be a problem of mineral shortage and/or dehydration. It is also possible the hen has caught an infectious disease following a downfall in immunity resistance. Some birds tend to give their youngsters too much feed and water (reason for polyuria in the youngsters). If that bird doesn't have enough minerals or doesn't eat enough minerals (calcium), then this problem can occur, especially with hens that also have to lay eggs. In combination with not enough water in the body of the hen (because she gives everything to her youngster) you can see these symptoms of weakness. In a lot of cases just removing the hen from her youngsters and give enough food, water and minerals, is enough to let all the symptoms disappear in just a matter of hours.

Off course there is a possibility there is also some infection f.e. parasites (worms), that can worsen the problem. So a clinical examination could give more clarity.

Kind regards

My pigeon lost weight and struggles to fly up?

This pigeon is seemingly in good health, eats good, nice complexion, clear eyes but is very light, lost weight after rearing second round of chicks and struggles to fly up from the ground because wings seems to be lame. This condition continues now for 4 months already. Medicines given were: DOVABIOTIC for 5 days (3 months ago), later on Tricoxine tablets for 3 days (last month). Also treated him for lint and round worms. What should I do now?..very good strain from "Van Loon Grizzle". A friend suggested the bird may have been poisoned by eating the wrong plant leaves.

question by: Mauritz Visage

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

Dear Sir, The symptoms you describe, can indicate a problem with streptococcus, paratyphus, perhaps E. coli septicaemia... It would be advisable to do a treatment for streptococcus and after that paratyphus (depending on perhaps blood and/or droppings examination) in consultation with your veterinarian. Kind regards

What disease caused pigeon loss in Malta ?

Do you believe that we in Malta have been losing pigeons in great numbers due to Adenovirus or as I believe due to some other disease like for example Paratyphoid ?

question by: Charles Pace

answer by: Dr. Vincent Schroeder

Naturally you can lose pigeons when they have a paratyphoid or adeno virus. But I think the biggest cause is respiratory problems. When the pigeons have ornithose they also have problems orienting correctly.

My race pigeons arrive late, and some even get lost. What is my problem?

I seem to be having a big problem with my old birds, the same happened this time off the season last year ??? Carlo , the birds did not breed only sat eggs , no problems all winter , till i paired the second time in late march , then 4 with wings a bit stiff , also one badly crocking like resp , i thought at the time parathpoid , so i killed the infrected birds , i sent to the first race which i took first prize a easy race 120 miles a lot took all day to come , since then the are reluctant to fly and feel very soft with no body , i change the food but still the same , this week they seemed to be a bit better , but i sent them to the race yesterday very fast , in the local club all members had there birds back in minutes but mine were all day and still 6 missing from 25 , this is what happen last year so i got rid off my old team and stated a fresh with 2007 birds Carlo last year at the same time i had them tested and they came back all clear , i have been a very top flyer in my local area for thirty years so please dont think i am a novice , but i am at my wits end with these birds in the state there in , they look this morning like they have flown 600 miles all soft and blown up

question by: David

answer by: Pascal Lanneau

I think it would be a good idea to start with a general health state check up of you birds. Testing them for tricho, coccidiosis, wurms, paratyphus, coli, etc. In this way you can have a real impression of the problem and so the treatment can be done like it should be. Just some small questions to have a better impression of the problem:
* are they vaccinated against pmv?? pox?? paratyphus??
* how was breeding this season?
* did the youngsters grow well?
* are the pigeons much thinner when they come back?
* are the tired after a small race?
* do they recover very well?
* do you see some obvious problems in the loft, with the pigeons?
* is there a good apetite?
* did you do already a dropping test searching for cocci? wurms? paratyphus?? What were the results?
* did you gave already any treatment against some diseases?
May be we can learn something more about the problem if we have an answer to these questions.

Can trimethoprim during moulting be negative for the moult?

Do you think that a 7/10 day course of Trimetroprim during the time of moulting will have a negative effect on the moult? And since i have seen an isolated case of wing lameness, do you think that this treatment is enough to clear any other 'hidden' pigeons carrying the paratyfus bacteria?

question by: Jojo

answer by: Vincent Schroeder

A cure with thrimétoprim during the moulting is not a problem.
You have to give the good dosis ( 1 gr pure thrimétorpim on 4 liters of water) during a long time.
If the weather is cold it's better to give a cure of 14 days.
Before you start with the cure, you should check the droppings (bacteriology test).
If there is paratyphoid you have to cure with thrimétoprim first and afterwards vaccinate the pigeons.

What is the best treatment against streptococcus?

We have had our stock birds tested for bacteria problems, the result being that the pigeons are infected with streptococcus,
(1) how do the birds infect each other ?
(2) can it be totally got rid of?
(3) what do we use and for how long do we treat
We have had some advice already, our vet reccomends 7 days (Baytril) We believe 14 days would probably be better !
We have read an article by Dr Gordon Chalmers, he suggests baytril is not the product to use!

question by: Nick

answer by: Pascal Lanneau

First of all, a very important question to start with!!
You say you have tested your birds for bacterial problems, but did you test the droppings only?
It is very important to know that 40-45 % of the normal, not ill pigeons, will have Streptococs in their droppings, without having any problem with this. This means that a bacterial culture of the droppings showing infection with Streptococs, doesn't mean that the pigeons are infected in their bodies. It is only when you have isolated the bacteria IN the pigeon (so, after an autopsy), that you can be sure of having a problem with this bacteria.
When you have problems with Streptococs, you can see a pigeon that will limb, problems with flying, swollen articulations, sometimes sudden death...
Do you have such problems?

My pigeon has flying problems and picks next to the corn. What is the treatment for this?

I have a racing pigeon that is heavily inbred, father to daughter. it is a late bred from fall of 2005. the first noticable symptom was what I thought was eye problems. he would try to pick up grain but would slightly miss it. he had control of his head but it took three or four tries before he could get the grain. He had less problems with larger grain like corn.he also had trouble flying up to the purch. he could fly up alright but just slightly miss the purch. then it hit him like an attack, on the floor flopping around head twisting no control of his wings or legs. it was like a seisure. he is now in a seperate cage. he eats and drinks ok. he has control then looses it . he has good days then bad . droppings ok and no weight loss. still can't see very well. has trouble walking and sleeps on his side. when i hold him he has lots of strength in his wings. feathers still soft and silky. eyes still seem clear and still has eye sign. do you have any ideas on treatment.

question by: Steve

answer by: Pascal Lanneau

According to your story, I think you might have problems with paramyxovirus.
Pmv can mainly cause two main symptoms: nervous symptoms and symptoms linked to the kidneys. In the first case, you can see trembling, picking just next to the corn, no control of the wings, the head that is turning around, noequilabration like it should be etc... In the second case you have watery droppings with some small pieces in the middle of the droppings. Most of the time they drink a lot.
It is possible that the symptoms go away after some weeks (can be till 6 weeks), if this is not the case, it is possible the symptoms will always stay.
In the meantime you have to make sure they have a lot of food in every corner of a seperate cage, a lot of water, you can give them extra Vit B, some electrolytes...
BUT BE CAREFULL: IN MANY COUNTRIES YOU ARE OBLIGATED TO MENTION TO THE AUTHORITIES THAT YOUR PIGEONS HAVE PARAMYXO!!!
Depending on the country, the authorities will take restrictions for a certain region around your loft and more particular measurements for your own loft!!!!
Once again, I only think it might be pmv, according to your story!!

Waarom willen sommige duivinnen plots niet meer vliegen en vermageren ze zonder reden?

Sedert een 3 tal jaar ervaar ik in het najaar (september- oktober) problemen met de gezondheid van enkele duiven. Ik verklaar me nader: De rui verloopt voorspoedig, duiven hebben ganse dag open hok. Toch vertoond plots een duif ziekteverschijnselen (geen verwondingen):
Dik zitten
Niet meer willen/kunnen vliegen
Vermageren
Geel-groene mest
Eetlust blijft aanwezig
Vooral duivinnen

Het gekke is dat het steeds duiven betreft die goed gepresteert hebben (de selectie is immers achter de rug, van overbevolking is dus geen sprake). Telkens worden slechts één of twee duiven ziek. Bacteriekweek van de mest was al iedere keer negatief op parathyfus. Duiven worden trouwens 2/jaar geënt na het eerste voorval. Tricho binnen aanvaardbare normen, geen wormen of ornithose ... De diagnose was telkens streptococcen. Al had ik de indruk dat dit eerder een gokje is vermits er na behandeling ( 10dagen amco) geen volledige genezing optreed. De duiven blijven op de een of andere manier minder soepel vliegen en zijn voor de vlucht waardeloos, ik verwijder ze telkenmale. Ik ben niet alleen met dit probleem vermits het in mijn vriendenkring de laatste jaren eveneens opduikt. De meeste verwijderen zo'n duif meteen, ook al omdat de rest niet ziek is of wordt. Het is reeds de tweede keer dat ik duiven om deze reden liquideer die bij de eerste 100 nationaal vlogen ... ik kan dergelijke duiven eigenlijk niet missen.

question by: Kurt

answer by: Ruben Lanckriet

De symptomen die u beschrijft wijzen inderdaad sterk in de richting van streptococcose. Dit is een ziekte die heel veel voorkomt en typisch problemen geeft zoals u die beschrijft. Om één of andere reden (stress, gedaalde immuniteit, hoge infectiedruk,...) weten bepaalde streptococcen-stammen (deze zijn nog niet gekend) door te breken vanuit de darm (waar hij normaal onschadelijk kan verblijven) in de bloedbaan om zo organen en spieren te bereiken. In spieren en pezen ontstaat er zo een ontsteking waardoor hele stukken spier en pees aangetast worden (ik heb zo eens een duif in handen gehad waarvan de hele borstspier aan één kant van de borstkam weggevreten was). Zo een duif is inderdaad nooit meer geschikt om aan wedstrijden deel te nemen. De diagnose van streptococcen is alleen zeker te stellen via autopsie. Daarom kan het goed zijn om een zieke duif te laten necropsiëren om zo een beter beeld te kunnen krijgen van het probleem.
Differentiaal diagnostisch dienen we in uw geval nog te denken aan adenovirose type 2 (is niet hetzelfde als jongeduivenziekte), paratyfus, E. coli-septicemie.
Het uitbreken van de ziekte is een samenloop van omstandigheden. Het feit dat dit in de rui uitbreekt is niet uitzonderlijk aangezien de rui zeer belastend is voor de immuniteit. Er is immers veel eiwit nodig voor de rui die niet kan aangewend worden voor de productie van afweercellen en antilichamen. Het seizoen was reeds belastend voor de duiven, daarna wordt er dan nog dikwijls mee gekweekt. Zeker de duivin dient voor de productie van haar eitjes weer veel krachten (+ opnieuw eiwit) aan te spreken. Dit is in de rui zeer belastend. Iedere bijkomende onderliggende ziekte (zoals doodgewoon tricho, coccidiose, vaak onderliggend paratyfus, ornithose, herpesvirose,...) zorgt voor een extra belasting van het immuunsysteem waardoor streptococcose gemakkelijker kan doorbreken.
Het is van belang de volledige kolonie voldoende lang te behandelen en andere complicaties te vermijden. De immuniteit goed ondersteunen (leverondersteundende producten in de rui, hoogkwalitatieve voeding, mineralen, B-vitaminen, essentiële vetzuren!) en duiven voldoende laten recupereren van het seizoen is van het grootste belang.

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